The pacifist, Catholic, social organization of Las Abejas is centered in Acteal, however their support members are found throughout communities in Chiapas, mostly in Los Altos. While they support the struggle and demands of the EZLN, they do not support their resort to arms. 'Las Abejas' translates as 'the bees'; they liken themselves to the insects which work collectively towards the same goal, with God as their 'Queen', and in this case, towards peace.

This autonomous member of Las Abejas was interviewed in Acteal by a Mexican national volunteering with Global Exchange on July 31, 1998.

GLOBAL EXCHANGE: Does the community presently have international observers?

LAS ABEJAS: Yes. In Las Abejas. In all of the Las Abejas communities there are Peace Campers, but what we see is the Government wanting to remove all the observers or Peace Campers or those who come to observe, out of the country. So, we see this, they don't let foreigners pass through the army or immigration checkpoints. Well, we see this and we have an opinion, a study of the Government's work.

From what we see, the Government does not let the foreign observers pass through to the communities because the Government knows well how the situation has been created to make this war, who makes up the paramilitaries, who has organized the dirty war since 97 and how this has caused suffering among the people because they live outside of their communities, as the displaced. So the Government does not let foreign observer pass because the foreigners publicize what they are seeing in the communities where there are displaced, well eh, the Government, how do you say it, they are ashamed, really ashamed, because it is not fair that there are displaced in the municipality, in the state and in the nation. This is not the right way to live. And it was the Government which organized for the people live outside of their house but within the municipality. Well, the Government has not done their duty, they have violated their work, and for this reason they do not let the foreigners pass into the communities, that do not let the observers pass through.

But the opinion of Las Abejas, the opinion of all Las Abejas, is that yes it is necessary to have foreign observers. There is no right to..., the Government does not have the right to remove ('remove' here is used as the translation of 'correr' which means in this sense to 'run out', in this case it refers to deportation orders, 'requests' to leave, and impeding foreigners right to travel in certain areas- translator's note) ..., well the brothers/sisters (in Spanish, in this sense the term hermano also includes women) that are from the outside, the brothers/sisters that are here in the camps, the Government does not have the right to remove the observers because they are observers. It (the xenophobic campaign) is not because they are showing something to the community, but because the international observers are observing, they come to see the situation, the problems that there are in the indigenous areas, that are only in the indigenous areas, they are not in the cities, where the mestizos are, but in the indigenous areas. Where there are displaced people, there are large problems, a living condition that cannot be tolerated. So, Las Abejas think that it is more important for more people to come through and to observe what the observers are seeing is happening here in this situation. So that the situation is resolved quickly, not to provoke more problems. The Government says that the work of the observers provokes more problems. They only say this, because... they are ashamed. Because their work is not well done, is not good, no because the Government's work is against the children, against the civil population.

GX: What benefits do the international observers bring to the community?

LA: The benefits that they bring, they bring humanitarian aid. Sometimes help comes, because when they return to their countries and publicize, well, that the Government doesn't help the indigenous people. Yes, they want to assist the help of the humanitarian organizations, but to co-opt (stated as 'purchase') them. It is just as well, because if the Government sends help to the indigenous people, it is because they want them to vote for the PRI, so this is not a project, it is not special assistance, it is not what is help, it is to take advantage of the people. Assistance which takes advantage of the people. For this, the opinion of Las Abejas is that the Government themselves killed 45 brothers/sisters and the displaced people that have died, plus the suffering that they have endured. So, there is not any acceptance of Governmental assistance, no. What is needed from the Government, if they really want to help, is to comply with the agreements that were signed in San Andres Larrainzar. That would be a big help to the communities, to the nation. But if the Government doesn't comply with them then it is them who do not want to help the Mexican pueblo. So what we want is for more observers to come to become familiar with the situation in the indigenous areas.

The Government does not have the right to remove the foreigners. We know that we all have rights, we all have rights because we are all humans. We have to visit our brothers/sisters, because in all the communities that do not have a government of their own, the Government comes in. When observers come are told that, they (the government) say that, the Government is for the people, because they, many visiting brothers/sisters comes help. So, why don't they trust the Government? Because it is the order of the Government, the order of the President, that has created this situation that cannot be tolerated any longer.

GX: You mentioned that the observers come, see the conditions under which the people live and then go and publicize what they have seen in their countries. What benefit has come to Las Abejas due to the fact that other parts of the world have come to recognize the situation of Las Abejas?

LA: Well, we see the benefit is this, since November, when the people were displaced, since then, what we are eating, what we are living, has come help through Caritas, and through other organizations that send help, on this the displaced people are living. This has been a benefit.

GX: And in respect to community protection, has there been a benefit?

LA: Yes. Also, soldiers are not entering into the communities where there are Peace Campers, where the displaced people live, because there are observers. In places when there are no observers, they come in and attack directly, violating the rights where displaced people are. Where has this been seen? In Xoyep, on the 3rdof January of this year. After the 1st of January, when we protested on the 3rd... there were not observers there, so the soldiers entered and we were protesting against the presence of soldiers. They didn't move until some press arrived and then they moved back a little bit, but because they were not international press the army stayed in Xoyep. In this example, and also in this camp in Acteal, army also came in , entered and came to look through this camp. Before there were foreign observers. But now that there are international observers, they do not come in anymore. So, all of the observers help a little, a lot, the foreign observers. We need to have foreign observers to protect all of the displaced people, so that there are no more rights violations.

GX: Do you think that a Mexican observer can provided the same protection that a foreign observer can?

LA: Yes.

GX: The communities would be just as safe with only Mexican observers?

LA: Well, it's different. Mexican observers also help the displaced people in the camps, those who are living among the displaced people, yes, they help but their work is limited to within Mexico, within the nation. In contrast, foreigners know directly where they can communicate with international brothers/sisters to directly publicize the situation.

GX: Why do you want foreigners, in other countries, to know Las Abejas, and know that they live in a difficult situation?

LA: Because we know that the Government's work is a disgrace. We, Las Abejas, the opinion of all of Las Abejas, we have not violated one thing, we have not done one thing wrong, we have not stolen, nor committed other crimes against our indigenous brothers/sisters, but we receive threats and are made responsible for many things. They want to see us as a nongovernmental organization. Las Abejas is not a Governmental organization, we are not Governmental members, it is a NGO. So the Government forms paramilitary groups of people they know, so they will know who within the communities is organizing, who it is that is in a nongovernmental organization. So, we are the first to receive threats, we receive death threats, why? To try to get us to co-operate with them. With this they force individuals to be members of the PRI, force them to fight against the EZLN, force them to burn houses, to steal belongings, to destroy houses, to cut coffee, to steal products, they force this on all the Priistas, paramilitaries, Cardenistas. We don't want to take part in these crimes. We know that they are violations of rights. Because the law says, a person who commits something, should pay for it. But the PRIista paramilitaries do not respect the law. They do not respect the law. So they force cooperation with arms and ammunition. We do not believe in what they are doing because we know that it violates rights. The Zapatistas who say that they are going to fight against those who find them quietly in their houses are not at fault. We were the first to get death threats. We were displaced, they took our houses, burned them, on the 22nd 45 brothers/sisters were massacred, and 26 injured. All. We see that this as a huge travesty, it is a gross violation of human rights.

The opinion of Las Abejas is that it is important to publicize this information so that all of the world knows what is happening in all of the communities, to listen, observe and help. To demand that the Mexican Government comply with the San Andres Accords. And demand also, for the world to help demand that the government have a fair dialogue with the EZLN, that they have a dialogue with a mediator, with mediation, the direct dialogue that the government is asking for today is not possible. There cannot be a direct dialogue between the Government and the EZLN, because there needs to be... the regulations in the Geneva Convention state that there needs to be persons who intermediate. So, the opinion of Las Abejas, is that it is very important for there to be observers and so that they assist, and that they take notice of what is happening to their countries, to their organizations, and that they demand the Federal and state Government to comply with the San Andres Accords, and also that they send help through humanitarian aid. This is the voice of Las Abejas, the opinion of Las Abejas.

GX: Well, we are almost finished, is it correct to say that you invite foreigners here?

LA: Yes.

GX: Those that are here, are here because you want them to be here?

LA: Yes. Although the Government doesn't want them to be here. But we have the right to invite our friends because we are working peacefully, quietly and, for the good of the community. We have the right to invite our brothers/sisters. All of us are brothers/sisters, we are all the same skin and bones. We have to publicize, we have to talk, we have to inform others of the situation that we are living in.

GX: Well, the last question, do the foreigners intervene in your form of government? Do they have some sort of role in the way that you organize?

LA: Pardon?

GX: The foreigners have been accused of organizing the people in the communities, that it is not the communities themselves that are organizing, but the foreigners.

LA: The Government is creating lies. They are drawing their conclusions from the air and nowhere else. We are speaking the truth. The Government is always saying this, they are looking for a pretext (to accuse) the foreigners. Saying this is not correct. We have our own idea. We are not puppets, we are not controlled by others. They also say that we are manipulated by Tatik Samuel (Bishop Samuel Ruiz), this is not true. We have the right to organize. The Government sees us as dirty, like a monkey that always does as the Government says, before they treated us like animals, but we have our own idea. We know how to govern ourselves, according to our own indigenous culture. The foreigner does not bring us ways of how to govern, of how to do it, as I have said, we know our own way, our own culture, what autonomies (autonomous governments, municipalities, communities) are, and we are creating it, because we have the autonomy within our community. We know what autonomy means within our communities, what are our customs, and how we can govern. We know how to govern ourselves. We know how to organize everything. We have our community.

Before the Spanish arrived, before them and then after them, and before the community of Chenalho was so affected by the bad governments ('mal gobierno' is the adopted phrase to refer to the legacy of the PRI government), it was able to govern itself. The municipal government was elected in democratic form. Not with parties. The education of the person, recognized by the people or their actions, who had the best judgement, the most educated of the people, they were recognized to govern, that and their visions of a healthy indigenous community, they were named to govern in the community. But the Government, and their party, has changed this, the people are now manipulated. But we know well... how to govern ourselves, how to organize. It is not the foreigners who come to organize us or bring us ideas, or come to show us ideas or... how to govern us. How could they know how to do this? How they govern is different in their countries, they are organized differently in their countries. On the contrary, the foreigners come to study us, they come to learn our form of struggle, in the pacific way. Because we are not people with weapons, we are people who want peace. It is a pleasure to have foreigners have at Las Abejas, for them to study the organization of Las Abejas, and the organization of the indigenous communities. To do this they have the invitation to come to the Las Abejas communities and to take what they learn to their countries. The foreigners do not bring ideas to us, but they come to study our way of organizing and take it to their countries. This is what we have seen. What we know. Its the way it is.

GX: Two last questions. One, do you think that observers played an important role for the community directly after the massacre in December in Acteal?

LA: Yes. Sure. Well, the massacre was publicized, but not a lot to the foreigners. Sure the foreigners knew of it. That was because it was publicized by radio, by television, through social communication, it was widely known, that it was a great tragedy. In the papers, the national and international press, on the television, the massacre was also publicized as well as the acts of those responsible. All those who saw it on the television and in the newspaper, in other countries, took note and started looking, where is the place of the massacre? Why did they die? What have the indigenous done that they are dying for? Was it for revenge or for an act without meaning? That was how it was.

GX: As the last question, do you want to make a suggestion to other foreigners that want to come to Chiapas as observers? Is there something that you would like to say?

LA: Yes, I want to invite foreigners, the foreign observers, all of those who want to come to observe, to come, not just here (Acteal), but to all the places where there are displaced people, if they are Abejas or not. For observers to come to see how it is. To be witnesses to the acts. This is what I want, to invite them, I want to tell them, the foreigners, to know that we are inviting many observers. But also to know that if they receive an expulsion order, we want to know when a foreigner is removed, when the Government removes a foreigner, we want to be notified also so that we can denounce it immediately within the public opinion. Also to other nations, to the United Nations, this is also what we ask the foreigners for.

GX: Thank you...

LA: There you have a few words from me, you know, I am 100% indigenous and we do not all speak well (assume the meaning here to be 'we do not all speak Spanish well', as many indigenous speak firstly their native language).