The following is a transcription of a presentation by Margerito Ruiz, former national congressman and currently with the FIPI -- Independent Front of Indigenous Peoples. The transcription picks up part way into the talk, due to taping problems.

December 29, 1997
San Cristóbal, Chiapas, México

Only by arriving at a formula that we call autonomy can we attain the complete right to administer our own territories and resources. Autonomy means being recognized by the rest of society as a distinct people.

Our representatives and authorities are named in agreement with the collective democracy of our towns. The political parties do not impose their democracy on us. Their's is another democracy--it is one way; it is a western democracy that we respect, but our people have our own democracy.

And another form of autonomy, one which we as towns have the capacity to program and plan, to execute, to elaborate feasible studies on development. That is to say, a sustainable development by means of indigenous wisdom for its own development.

What that means is that the law must change so that the national budget which is administered each year has a special part for the indigenous peoples, but which is administered by the indigenous peoples themselves through their own institutions or organizations.

Only in that way can we develop ourselves as a people, which is to say, develop our education, our Mayan medicine, our Mayan literature, our Mayan art in general. To have universities without being in conflict with the other culture. Moreover, that the cultures that exist grow equally. And that never again is there one culture which is believed to be superior and which wants to impose itself on top of another culture.

That is the general framework. Because, if there continues to be in the world cultures that are believed to be superior to others, then what we are guaranteeing in the future is self-destruction. It is war - everyone against everyone. Because those who think themselves superior will continue dominating the world while those of us who they have always wanted us to believe are inferior will now rise up to say "Enough!" We are equal. Respect me because I respect you. What can we collaborate on together to construct the new society? A new society of equals, and not of unequals as we are now.

Finally, we are raising this autonomy project - and it is a project, it is not a finished thing. It is a project of the people trying to rescue their rights that for centuries have been unknown. The rights of a people are not negotiable. The rights of the people are sacred. The rights of the people are not discussed. They are recognized and exercised.

Then, within the autonomy project we are raising for the universe, for the world, we are somewhat revising history. When the concepts of the conquest are used - always he who conquered feels superior because he conquered. And conquest brings us to exploitation. It is the same whether it is a town, or a man, or a forest which is exploited; the result is destruction. But it is the same now when we speak of human rights. Everybody is worried about human rights. Many groups form for the promotion and defense of human rights. And we ask ourselves: "which human rights?" Who is violating those human rights? Is it some being which is not human? Aren't we complaining to ourselves about the violation of human rights? Isn't it many times another human that violates our human rights? Then, to speak of human rights without knowing the reason - because as humans we have given ourselves the power to destroy ourselves. Because we are talking only about the individual human rights, and not about the collective rights of the people. If we go on this way, there is no solution, because we all feel super-powerful over the land, and the result is that we conquer. Those who go to the moon say that they go to conquer. Those who go to other planets say that they are conquering, and I repeat: conquest is exploitation, and exploitation is destruction. And on the land - we are destroying the land. Because we adopted for ourselves that right to be different from the rest of nature. To be different and superior. And the indigenous philosophy is exactly the opposite. Here we are all equal - a man, a plant, a bird, we all live in this space. No one has rights over the other.

Because of this it is very complex to understand today. Because they say that when they confiscated us, we ended. And the only law that existed, the only thought which has been written down is that of the conquerors. The history, the thought, the laws...all of the conquerors. The rest don't exist. But that's a lie, we do exist, and they didn't conquer us, they dominated us.

This mentality of domination has been maintained for more that five centuries. But, the grandparents/ancestors said that a time had to pass, because then the sun abandoned us. And they said that there was a long night. And they advised that we desert the cane. That we close our temples and schools of knowledge. Because the night was going to be very difficult. That they keep the children in the cane. And that the grandparents and parents be the teachers so that the children's children can maintain their integrity as a people.

They said that dawn had to come. One day dawn had to come. And for us today, the dawn is getting closer. The new sun will rise. The Mexica calendar says that it is the sixth sun. The Mayan calendar says that it is the stage of the sixth millennium. They are stages of life. The problem which worries us is that when the dawn comes, perhaps it will be so that Indians and non-Indians can understand each other, or that in that new awakening, some will wake and others will remain asleep. If it is so, the war will continue. Because those who are sleeping will continue thinking asleep and their eyes will not be opened. In both parts - Indians and non-Indians.

And the great task that we have now - Indians and non-Indians - those of us who have woken before the dawn, is to help awaken the indigenous and non-indigenous society. So that when the dawn comes, we are together in the celebration - the great fiesta - to celebrate the new dawn because finally a new stage of life will begin. This is the challenge which we have now. And you? I am convinced that we will attain it. I am talking about ten or fifteen years, nothing more. It is very close.

That is the project. Actually we find ourselves in a very difficult situation because on one hand we are still very divided as indigenous people. We are not united. There are many roads. But, the majority of the time, this division that there is in the people is because there continue to be outside interests. Each person with their group for their own interest.

When we speak of indigenous rights, when we speak of indigenous philosophy, when we speak of indigenous wisdom, many don't understand us. And that makes sense. Because it is a novelty for perhaps the majority of society. That society which claims to be civilized because of it's cultural formation, yet what is written in the books is very limited. It is very limited in relation to indigenous culture. It is written through the intellectualization of a part of society. And the Indians can't write. We can't go to the university. So those who write are others. They take photos of us, and videos... they write a lot about Indians and they explain what we're like, but it is an interpretation. When we want to have a face-to-face discussion, they don't understand us. We are talking about two different things. But, then, we have to work at it so that they will understand us. We must give support to those who already understand us. If we continue talking each one on his/her road, then we will never understand each other.

We are calling for a permanent literacy campaign over indigenous rights. But to make the non-indigenous society literate so that they can understand us. Because we already understand the other society - we live, we cohabit, and some of us have had schooling, and we don't reject it. The other culture is pretty. The problem is that that culture, that society, has not wanted to understand us. The other - because they say what good does the Indian do us? That is the problem.

QUESTIONS

The Zapatistas and many of their supporters have pointed out that the greatest threat to indigenous communities and to autonomous projects around the world is neoliberalism, by which they just mean capitalism in its latest form. As part of your autonomy project do you envision creating alternatives to the capitalist marketplace, or do you simply envision your communities participating in the global marketplace as it exists?

There are two concepts here: one is globalization, the other is neoliberalism. But sometimes the two are confused. We are not against globalization if there is balanced participation in all decision making, and more importantly in taking advantage(??) Not exploitation - in taking advantage of the resources in each people's territories. We are not against that - that is balanced globalization - in which everyone participates.

Neoliberalism is a few people in power making decisions, or transnational capital without asking the people what they think. We are against that. And more than that, we as peoples must seek alternative markets, inside and outside of the country. Organizations, cooperatives, groups that want to do business with us directly. It's a form of globalization, but from people to people.

With that we want to say that the autonomy project that is driving of autonomous sections is active autonomy that trades with other peoples, with other societies. We don't want isolated autonomy. We don't want self-marginalized autonomy. There are some groups raising that autonomy which says we don't want anything from anyone. That is self-isolation and self-marginalization and that will not bring us to a constructive future. Self-marginalization is misery that leaves people abandoned, and nobody knows anything. We don't want that.

Have they had contact with autonomous regions in other countries?

Yes, many. In Europe. In America. With autonomous regions on the Atlantic coast of Nicaragua. With the Cunalyala autonomous experience in Panama. With the same process of the new constitution in Columbia. With the autonomous regions of Bolivia. But here in Mexico there is a people which has been autonomous throughout their entire history - they are the Yaquis of Sonora. The Yaqui people, the Yaqui tribe had it's internal government all it's life. It has 430,000 hectares of territory. There agrarian reform reached no one. With arms they were able to keep part of their collective territory. They are autonomous. They have their own project for economic development. They administrated, they executed, by Yaqui processors. It is a way of autonomy.

The problem is that each person understands autonomy in their way, and it's complicated. Then, twice the permanent forum over autonomy and indigenous rights in Mexico and Central America (?). They are a team of indigenous - right now I am general coordinator for that team of fifteen members. It tries to systematize the daily practice of autonomy in the communities, but overall, to elaborate a concept of autonomy with its limits and its capacities. To broadcast this autonomy project to consent with all the Indian and non-Indian peoples, politicians, academics, religious figures. And to broadcast, in videos, in books, in magazines, about consentual autonomy. Even though each town practices it according to their own dynamic. But what we want to demonstrate is that the concept of autonomy is not dangerous. The concept of autonomy is the name that is given to the rights of peoples who have been unknown. The 29th, 30th and 31st of January, we will meet here, those fifteen people from Mexico, Panama, El Salvador, Honduras, Belize - to elaborate the program 1998-2000 of many conferences on autonomy, in universities, with political parties, with churches, with all organizations in order to present a proposal of consentual autonomy, and not the conflicts that there are...(?)

I understand that right now the most important concerns are about autonomy issues, but you also mentioned earlier that it's possible that in the future we're going to have a Mexican society and a Mexican constitution which better reflect the multiculturalism that there is in the country, and I would like to know if the indigenous communities overall see it as possible to coexist in a situation where the rest of society is still exploiting the land.

It is complex. It is difficult, but not impossible. That's why I said that those who are not indigenous but who already understand us - if we join forces, we can advance towards our goal. It is the humanization of society. It will humanize because we say that we are all humans. The problem is that they have put in another cassette here - another diskette. Sometimes what the diskette says doesn't coordinate with what the heart says. Then, we have to do a lot of technical work, electrical work so that what the heart feels and what gives the orders can be coordinated. Yes, it will be so. Yes, it will happen. It doesn't matter how much time it takes us. The reconstruction of the peoples - that means the humanization of society - that is the future. We can not put a time on it. If one year, ten years, twenty years - it doesn't matter how long it takes. What's important is that (???). We are not in a time for sadness or complaints. We are in new times, which means work, dialogue, tolerance, to reach reconciliation.

That is the framework of autonomy. A true equality - not on paper, nor in discourse. If they invent other things I believe that they are not really interpreting this fragmentation. What's really going on is a failure to recognize indigenous peoples. Simply. The day that the full rights of the indigenous peoples are recognized it will affect...interests. Because then the resources of the country will be shared more equally, more balanced. The other recognizes the rights of indigenous people - that in indigenous territory there is wealth - but it is not distributed among the indigenous. That is the problem. And in power, in the administration of national life, there is no indigenous participation. And they don't want indigenous participation. Here in a certain way the problem is not with the government. Here the problem is with society. The problem is not with the right or with the left - the problem is that the society does not understand us. Neither those from the left, nor those from the right, nor those from the center. Moreover, those from the left perhaps act a little humanist or paternalist - they have the vote! But they are not concerned that there be effective indigenous representation in the house of representatives, in the senate or in the state congress. I don't understand why they don't want it, because what we will talk about there is the balanced development of humanity. That is what we want. We don't want to run those from Mexico out, nor do we want them to die. We want to find a way to live together. What we have always said. A new relationship between Indians and non-Indians. A new relationship between Indians and the state. That is what we want!

Translated by Rebecca Willett